Monday, February 4, 2013

Universal suffrage, fairness, and practicality


I have been reading the reader responses to my essay, “Real Conservatives aren’t sexist,” as well as the ongoing rebuttals over at Vox Populi. I understand that I have still not convinced Vox and the Dread Ilk to embrace and accept female suffrage.

I have not been ignoring you, gentlemen. Rather, I have been distracted in recent days by the comparatively soft targets of John Scalzi and his sycophants over at the Whatever. Debating with Vox and his inner circle is somewhat akin to bear-hunting. Why put yourself through that when there are all those delightfully slow-moving dodo birds? But like a real-life turkey shoot, there comes a time when you simply have to stop.



Your arguments, gentlemen, all boil down to one essential realization: When you open up the gates of universal suffrage, the results become more unpredictable and difficult to manage. This much is true: The GOP is struggling at present not because Obama is “cool”—but because the current Republican brand lacks the universal appeal it had in the 1980s. Citing the example of Reagan, I noted that conservatism need not be shrill, mean-spirited, or imbued with religious extremism. What the GOP needs today is more of the Gipper, less of Rick Santorum and Rick Perry. But I digress.

On the subject of women, in particular: We agree that men and women differ in certain emotional and psychological aspects. Where I differ with Vox is that I do not believe these differences make women incapable of responsible participation in civic affairs. My position is based partly on my previously cited evidence, partly on the principle of fairness, and partly on a lifetime’s worth of observation and interaction with real women. Like all men, I have found individual members of the fair sex to be inscrutable at times; but I have also met many whom I have found to be reasonable, intelligent, and wise. Women are exactly like men in one crucial aspect: You have to judge them one at a time.

But let’s suppose—for the sake of argument—that all my positions are wrong. Let us suppose that Vox is right about the capabilities of women in civic life. Here is my question to you: What are your next steps? 

I have no doubt that if you were to designate Vox as your Lycurgus, and fashion an idealized masculine republic based on his principles, you would be able to achieve the outcomes you desire. If I were to make myself universal dictator, I would be able to achieve even more predictable ends.

But here is a point I believe you overlook: We live in the twenty-first century. Women are taxpayers, voters, and fully integrated into our educational, corporate, and political institutions. A significant number of men (myself included) believe that they have the right to equal opportunities in our society. Even if it is possible to prove that women are marginally less (or more, a la Tom Peters) capable than men, an inexorable fact remains: Female participation in our society is firmly established; and barring some cataclysmic counterrevolution, it is here to stay.

While arguments of innate ability and predilection are interesting in the context of Internet forums and late-night discussions over beer, my primary concern is a practical one: How can we return America to the center-right consensus that is its natural state? I believe the answer is to take a hard look at the direction so-called “conservatism” has taken in recent years: The GOP since G.W. Bush has become too religious, too shrill, and too anti-intellectual. Rectify these deficiencies, and you will restore conservatism’s broad appeal.    

On a semi-related note, Vox and I are both old enough to remember the publication of The Bell Curve, and all the controversies that book generated, regarding race and the problem of innate ability. Frankly, I have never found such polemics to be especially interesting, for two reasons:

One, even if it is possible to demonstrate that a particular group (men, women, whites, blacks, Asians, etc.) is marginally more intelligent/aggressive/etc. as compared to its counterpart(s), such differences are statistically marginal, at best. Within my personal circle of acquaintances, there are plenty of Asians who are poor at math, and at least a dozen African-American engineers. The marginal characteristics of a particular group (if they are provable and demonstrable at all) do not enable you to make accurate predictions about an individual member of that group.

Secondly, we live in a pluralistic society. Fairness demands that we accept the equal rights of all individuals (as opposed to the group rights advocated by the extreme right and the politically correct left); and practicality demands that we (I am speaking for conservatives here) construct a message of small government and individual liberty that is free of religious, ethnic, and gender biases.

In practice, arguments about race and/or and sex-based innate abilities do little more than offend people. Whether it is Susan Sontag stating that “the white race is the cancer of human history,” Tom Peters declaring that “women rule” (or should rule) in the workplace, or white supremacists arguing against the equality of blacks, the outcome is the same: Such arguments take us further away from our rational selves, and closer to the jungle.

Again, the key is the individual—not the identity group(s) to which an individual might belong. 

25 comments:

  1. But let’s suppose—for the sake of argument—that all my positions are wrong. Let us suppose that Vox is right about the capabilities of women in civic life. Here is my question to you: What are your next steps?

    Mr. Trimnell,

    This will be short. What are the next steps?

    Most of the Ilk (if I may generalize) would be very happy to highly restrict the voting franchise. Most would happily give up their own right to vote to get those that vote more brad and circuses for themselves out of the voting pool.

    Vox has written on this numerous times.

    In fact, there is such a debate ongoing now at the blog in regard to direct democracy vs. rep. republic.

    Democracy is the enemy of liberty. Along with this, universal suffrage is the enemy of liberty.

    You are stuck on women voting. Try, what if only 10% of the entire population was allowed to vote. The woman thing is a red herring of sorts. Why should anyone be allowed to vote? And if someone is allowed to vote, what are the qualifications?

    The other day, a troll posted as a joke, "Well why don't we throw away the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?" (paraphrase)

    The (not) surprising thing is that many of us would. We would prefer to go back to the Articles Of Confederation or a rough equal.

    Lysander Spooner is instructive in this regard.

    Spooner quotes:

    “And yet we have what purports, or professes, or is claimed, to be a contract—the Constitution—made eighty years ago, by men who are now all dead, and who never had any power to bind us, but which (it is claimed) has nevertheless bound three generations of men, consisting of many millions, and which (it is claimed) will be binding upon all the millions that are to come; but which nobody ever signed, sealed, delivered, witnessed, or acknowledged; and which few persons, compared with the whole number that are claimed to be bound by it, have ever read, or even seen, or ever will read, or see.”
    ― Lysander Spooner, No Treason: The Constitution Of No Authority


    “But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist.”
    ― Lysander Spooner, No Treason: The Constitution Of No Authority


    “A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.”

    ― Lysander Spooner


    So let us remove the privilege of the vote from all. Only let those that will safeguard our liberty, and those that refuse to set themselves up as master and make the rest of us slaves, have the privilege to vote.

    That is a short example of some alternate ideas in regard to universal suffrage/the voting franchise.

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    1. But again: How might you accomplish that? Male suffrage has been more or less universal since 1870. Women got the vote in 1920--two years before my grandmother was born. Democracy, like it or not, is deeply entrenched.

      The U.S. going back to a purely republican system (as existed before the Age of Jackson) is extremely unlikely, about the same chance as changing our national language to Esperanto. I think that it would be far easier to make the case for smaller government to the broader electorate.

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    2. Short reply again.

      I do not believe there is really any possibility to go back anymore. The republic is dead. We have virtual universal suffrage and a democracy, not a democratic republic.

      The genie ain't going back in the bottle.

      Now, there are some that are hopeful that good things can happen, mexican immigrants can be something other than socialist, women in mass can be convinced to vote for liberty over security, etc.

      I don't believe it will happen. What will happen? I don't know, but eventually something will. I think Vox predicts dissolution of the country/bankruptcy by about 2030.

      One thing that seems likely in the short run, liberty is not going to come screaming back. Marxism is on the march.

      (Again, small criticism, I note your use of the marxist [Trotsky]terms: racism, sexism, [throw in all the other isms along these lines that the marxist Newspeakers have conjured up to silence all incorrect thought. As is frequently used by Scalzi, since he has been in your discussions lately].)

      I tend to believe along the line of Tolkien's "fighting the long defeat".

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    3. @Conan: "Again, small criticism, I note your use of the marxist [Trotsky]terms: racism, sexism"

      I see your point. For me, these are shorthand terms for "making snap judgments about intellect/capability based on race/sex." I realize that they are prone to overuse and abuse, but they are often necessary in conversations of this sort, lest posts become too wordy.

      I do promise, however, to assiduously avoid the word "homophobia"--except in quotes. ;)

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  2. Your post word verification is extremely hard to read.

    And since many of us don't want anyone to vote, instead of sexist/misogynist, you should instead use misanthropes. That would be closer to the truth if you are going to use marxist/PC terminology (sexist, racist, homophobe (are all based out of marxist ideology - to use it is to be subject to the marxism) at least you the most appropriate term that comes closet to actually hitting the truth most squarely on the head.

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    1. I often find them hard too, but hit the refresh button next to the verification field and you'll get another one, which is often easier.

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  3. "How can we return America to the center-right consensus that is its natural state?"

    How exactly can you make this claim when the evidence of the exact opposite surrounds us all? We are living in the natural state of the society we have become.

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    1. Or put another way: We would have to return the political economy of the USA to that which first produced a center-right consensus.

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    2. Joshua:

      Here is the evidence: recent history.

      I don't really have a sense of your age, so I am not sure how well you recall the political consensus of the 1980s, or our society then. The GOP of the 1970s and 1980s had a far broader appeal. California--the archetypical liberal state, went for Reagan in '80 and '84, and Bush 41 in 1988.

      Ronald Reagan was far more moderate on social issues than today's Republicans. (Reagan actually took a lot of heat from the religious right, a topic that I might post about at a later date.) Bush 41 was also a moderate-and he won in a landslide in 1988.

      The beginning of the end for conservatives/Republicans was when the conservative movement was taken over by the extreme anti-government right (who partially cost Bush the 1992 election), and the religious right.

      Note that Gerald Ford, a deeply religious man and GOP leader of the 1970s, seldom invoked religion in the public square. Nor did Reagan or Bush 41, except in a purely symbolic context. Compare that to today's GOP leaders like Rick Santorum, who constantly seek to align government with their personal interpretations of Scripture.

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    3. Edward Trimnell said:

      "The GOP of the 1970s and 1980s had a far broader appeal. California--the archetypical liberal state, went for Reagan in '80 and '84, and Bush 41 in 1988."


      You also have to factor in who they ran against. Reagan in '80 vs Carter, '84 Mondale. Bush in '88 vs Dukakis. Bush in '92 vs Clinton.

      In the first three examples there were better odds of electing a ficus tree in their stead with them running against Reagan or Bush. And in the last example it fell partially to what you said about the extreme right, but also because the people were ready for a change and they fell for "Slick Willie's" brand of snake oil.

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    4. @tiredofitall:

      Hey, my grandmother thought that Mondale had charisma. Seriously, though, I would acknowledge that personalities played a role. Ronald Reagan was the Great Communicator, due in large part to his unique background. We will never see another one like him.

      Slick Willie was charismatic; but his victory was primarily attributed to his billing himself as a more centrist "New Democrat." In 1992, the Dems realized that they were clobbered in 1988 largely because of Dukakis's hard-left ideological stances (anti-death penalty, etc.) (Do you remember that debate moment with Bernard Shaw?) The point was: extremism loses elections.

      Clinton was liberal on social issues (for 1992); but he realized that on economic issues, the Dems had to move to the center. Recall his campaign tagline: "It's the economy, stupid!"

      In 2012, the GOP economic message (to the extent that it existed at all) was buried under the Todd Akin brouhaha, and (successful) liberal efforts to paint the GOP as rightwing religious extremists.

      I hate to say it, but GOP leaders like Rick Santorum/Todd Akin do make that strategy easier for the Left. The extremist label was much more difficult to pin to Reagan or Bush 41.


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  4. So, what has changed in the political landscape from the 1980s to today?

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  5. The question may be moot relatively soon anyway. Given the multi-trillion dollar debt (not including debt obligations) U.S. collapse (and likely Western collapse) may well be inevitable. When you have a majority of people dependent upon government largesse (and the U.S. is very close to this, with several European countries already in this position), then government reduction will not occur. People will collect what they can before it all 'goes away' (a bit like trying to get a piece of a Tiger before they are all wiped out - or Rhino, etc. Extinction often accelerates when a species is on the brink).

    - Apollyon

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  6. "When you open up the gates of universal suffrage, the results become more unpredictable and difficult to manage."

    No, that's not it at all. The arguement is that when one population loses the majority then the society's values will be replaced with whatever values the new majority holds. This is self evident.

    You are wrong about Bush in 1992. He ran as a continuation of Reagan when nothing is further from the truth. Lest you forget, he ran against Reagan in the 1980 primary and coined the phrase "voodoo economics." He lost for the same reason the Repubs lost congress under George W: he showed himself to be a big gov. Repub.

    Finally, I'm still waiting to hear if you think Asians are brutish, barnyard animals in the way that Ayn Rand described them in the excerpt of her writings that you posted.

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    1. Anonymous: First of all, please consider posting under your real name, or at least some sort of a name. (There are too many people named "anonymous" on the Internet.)

      I believe you stated yourself to be of Japanese ancestry and asked about Japan and racism. As I speak Japanese (I used to be a Japanese-language interpreter) and have spent a lot time there, I can speak to part of this. Since you identified yourself as an insider to Japanese culture, I will assume that you are familiar with the Japanese language, the original Japanese sources, and historical references as well.

      You probably know, first of all, that the Japanese concept of 他人 has racial components; but it is more of an insider-outsider distinction rather than a purely racial one. You are probably also aware that some Koreans and Chinese who fought for the Emperor during WWII are believed to reside (spiritually, that is) at the 靖国神社。So while the Japanese do have a history of racial biases, it is complex, and not precisely analogous to what we refer to as racism. (Recall the 鎖国時代 of the of the Tokugawa era, in which Japanese who went to sea were killed not because of anything racial, but simply because they had left Japan.)

      In regard to barbarism, specifically, I would say that what the Japanese did in China and Korea during WWII was certainly barbaric. I dispute the notion that Japan is inherently racist today, having traveled to Japan and interacted with numerous Japanese over the past 20+ years. In fact, one could make the case that the Japanese have gone to the other extreme, given the 国際化craze of the past few decades. The Japanese government has a strict immigration policy; but individual Japanese are intensely interested in anything "foreign."

      But yes, what happened in China and Korea during WWII certainly was barbaric. Moreover, the internment of the Japanese-Americans during WWII was unfair and unnecessary, as not a single act of espionage was ever attributed to Japanese-Americans. On the other hand, acts of espionage were attributed to the German-American Bunds, but there was no call to intern German-Americans.

      So no, I don't consider Japan as a nation to be "barbaric" today. But the actions of the Japanese military during WWII certainly were--and this was partially (but not entirely) because of racist beliefs that many Japanese accepted at that time.






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  7. I dispute the notion that Japan is inherently racist today, having traveled to Japan and interacted with numerous Japanese over the past 20+ years.

    I dispute your notion disputing the notion. I, too, have traveled to Japan. It consists almost entirely of Japanese people. This is racism for the benefit of a self-determining society: the Japanese would no more rig their system to be more inclusive of whites, blacks other Asians or latinos than they would cede control of their government to the Chinese.

    If Japan is your idea of an anti-racist exemplar, then I think you may simply be using different definitions for shared terms. After all, one can not fetishize the "other" or the "foreigner" if one sees the other as inherently equal. It is simply impossible.

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    1. @Daniel:

      I'm not sure of your familiarity with Japan, your reading of its contemporary books and periodicals, and your conversations with Japanese people (including those who speak no English). This would give you a more complete picture than you might glean in a few trips.

      Compared to the U.S., Japan has a strict immigration policy; everyone agrees on that. The LDP (the party that has largely been in power since WWII) has favored a a "conservative" approach to outside influences. This includes, for example, limiting the access of large retail chains to the Japanese market, and yes, also controlling immigration. The top-down, change-resistant approach even applies *within* Japan. For example, did you know that the Japanese government tried to prevent Honda from producing automobiles in 1972, as it wanted to conserve national resources for Nissan and Toyota?

      If you want to say that the Japanese government and business establishment is resistant to changes and outside influences, I agree with you. But how much time have you spent in Japan, and what has been your level of involvement in the society? To chalk up Japanese attitudes to simple racism is a gross oversimplification.

      Japanese do take a strong interest in things "foreign," but this includes a broad swath nowadays. For example, the Chinese language and books about Chinese culture are very popular in Japan. If the Japanese were "racist" against Asians, this wouldn't be the case.

      The Japanese "fetishization" of things foreign can be traced back to the drive for modernization that occurred during the Meiji era, when Japan had to catch up to the West. Even before that, Japan had a history of borrowing from other cultures: Buddhism from Korea, kanji from China, etc. Beginning in the mid-1800s, the emphasis switched to borrowing from the West, as the West more technologically advanced then.

      I can't give you a complete summary of Japanese culture in this comment thread. But I would encourage to learn a bit more about it before you expound with such certainty.

      I did not say, by the way, that Japan is an "anti-racist exemplar." Nor did I state that the Japanese government is especially open to outside influences (regardless of their racial origins). The original post from Anonymous characterized the Japanese as "racist," implying that the average Japanese is necessarily more virulently racist than the average Thai, American, Mexican, German, or Israeli. I have yet to see evidence of this--at an individual, person-on-the-street level.

      Also, Daniel: Do you regularly read the editorial pages of any Japanese newspapers or periodicals? I think you will find that they reflect a very open attitude toward other cultures and peoples.



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    2. The point has completely sailed past you. Openness to other races is inherently racist, as it recognizes that one's own race is in some way different from another's. Equalitarian thinking says "there is no race - fundamentally it is an artificial construct and a delusion." Racist thinking (like Japan's cultural sort) says "wow, look at all the different racist. Aren't they interesting in the way that they are different from us?"

      In other words, if you are advocating for Japan's form of "openness to races" vs. the cultural form that exists in the U.S. then, certainly, you are advocating for both racist openness and open racism.

      Japanese style racism in the U.S. would involve an efficient train system with enormous groups of immigrants upon them, and all the white folks saying, "Boy weren't those visitors quite interesting? Who is up for tacos?"

      You can't separate a nation's race migration policy from a nation's stance on race.

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  8. Daniel@

    The point didn't sail past me. In your original comment, you made some broad generalizations about Japanese culture, when you obviously have no in-depth knowledge of either the country, its history, or its culture (as evidenced by your lack of response to any of the detailed historical points.)

    Let's leave Japan aside, though, as it is fairly obvious that your objective was to use Japan as a straw man for a broader, and even more untenable argument.

    First of all, I never said that "race is an artificial construct." Whomever you're quoting there, it isn't me. And to say that acknowledging the existence of race is "racist" is a non sequitur. Racism (as I define it) is to declare that the quality of a person's character and intellect are fundamentally determined by race. If I acknowledge that my African-American coworker might have a genetic resistance to malaria that I don't (because of our racial differences) this isn't the same as saying that I am more intelligent because of our racial difference. Nor is it the same as saying that he should not be allowed to vote or eat at the same lunch counter that I do.

    As for an interest in different cultures: This is not racism. I have an interest in learning languages, for example. I've studied several European languages and several Asian ones as well. According to your above posts, this makes me "racist."

    And no, a nation's immigration policy need not be racially motivated (though of course it can be). Immigration is more often than not an issue of economics. There are many instances of European countries restricting immigration among themselves, even though everyone is fundamentally white.


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    1. No, Ed, my knowledge of Japan is extensive compared to the average non-Japanese. I've got the university credentials, travel, and family members to prove it. I have provided non-binding written council to the government of Sapporo on the Sakhalin Island dispute at their request.

      What I am unconcerned about is getting off on a rabbit trail that is irrelevant to the facts:

      You yourself claim that Japan's immigration policy is more strict than the U.S. By definition, therefore, Japan is more racist regarding immigration. Japan is for the Japanese, even if their odd citizen occasionally (as I have seen with my own eyes) playfully walk the festivals of Tokyo with a shirtless black man on a leash.

      If Japan is not racist, how on earth have they managed to remain so very Japanese, racially? Is it just because everyone else is racist and wants nothing to do with the otherwise wealthy and stable Japanese culture?

      You've proven twice an inability to separate your generalization from the truth. The factual truth is Japan is racist, and their openness to other races proves this, yet you hold it up as an example of equality.

      That's not logical. You could live in Japan for all I care, and read every editorial written. That does not somehow magically endow you with valid assumptions. If you can't look out your window and wonder how it is, exactly, that they keep their communities so (for want of a better word) pure despite all the social benefits of belonging to Japanese society (as opposed to, say, Laos), then you've missed the racism inherent in their homogenous state.

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    2. @Daniel:

      Your credentials are duly noted and I apologize if I misjudged you. You seemed to be evading any discussion of Japanese history or culture which might back up your claims, hence my (perhaps hasty) conclusion. Keep in mind, I do not know you; and I could only draw my conclusions based on what you posted.

      That having been said, you still haven't addressed any of my earlier historical and cultural arguments, which do support the notion that Japan's isolationism differs significantly from racism as it is expressed in the West. The Japanese notions of hierarchy and in-group are not fundamentally based on race, as is the case with white supremacist groups. Nor are people of other races barred from becoming part of the in-group based on race, as my previous examples note. I also think you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion regarding what racism actually is in the real world.

      This would make an excellent subject for a Skype debate--of the sort we have proposed for Vox and Scalzi. If you would be interested in debating this live, contact me and we can discuss it. But I fear we are only going to continue going in circles in the comments thread.

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    3. I evade nothing. I think the history of Japan is irrelevant to determine if a nation's "openness" to the foreign is not, in fact, inherently racist. In order to have such openness, after all, is to admit that there are differences between the races. To bar them from citizenship is to identify them as outsiders. This too is racist.

      The reason Japan looks similar, demographically (although more aged) to the Japan of 20 years ago and the Japan of WWII, and Meiji Japan and further back is because Japan has held its racism as a cultural value, has opposed immigration (and rights of the Ainu) on racist grounds, etc.

      They are relatively happy and unapologetic about this. It is an easy-going, curious racism, if you will, but you simply can't argue with the lack of diversity. That's by design. Everything Japanese is by design.

      I thank you and respectfully decline - for now - an oral debate, but do agree with you that it would be a good thing to have. I believe that one of the differences between liberal and conservative is that the liberal typically attempts to hide or deny his Marxist roots, while the conservative remains blissfully unaware of his own. Live debate is great, if for nothing else, but a hacking at those roots.

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  9. How can we return America to the center-right consensus that is its natural state?

    What is the mechanism that you imagine produces a center-right consensus in America but doesn't produce a center-right consensus in many other parts of the world?

    Is there special air or special water here? On a more serious note, is it our institutions, government and law? Is it our culture derived from the influence of institutions? If so, then what produced this culture before the institutions were established?

    What you're referring to (a center-right culture) results from an organic process - culture derives from people. Groups of people form society and the aggregation of their individual proclivities shape the society. When the distribution of proclivities favors some particular characteristics, then society bends in that direction and when the distribution of proclivities changes then society too will change.

    Consider:

    The relationships between national personality traits and intelligence from 51 countries were examined. It was found that extraversion, openness to experience and agreeableness measured at the national level were significantly and positively correlated with national IQs; however, in the regression model only the former two were marginally significant. For openness but not extraversion, this corresponds to observations made at the individual level. It was also shown that, taken together, Big Five traits and IQs of various cultures statistically explained 70% of a nation's gross domestic product (GDP) per capita.

    If you want the political culture to be center-right then you need to craft a population which has the proclivities which favor a center-right world view. The population of the US is changing over time. Our population has grown 33% since 1980. The society which drew immigrants when we had no welfare state tested those immigrants differently than a society with a welfare state tests present immigrants. Those tested immigrants join society or leave society.

    Secondly, the US has never been a homogenous culture and thus there was no safety net to coddle the immigrants who couldn't make their way but as that safety net was established what followed over time was a changing distribution of people. Mexico is Mexico mostly because it's peopled by Mexicans, not because of Constitutions and Institutions. If you take 1/3 of Mexico and transplant it to the US you are going to change the nature of US culture despite the Constitution and Institutions remaining unchanged.

    Culture arises from the people who inhabit the society and when the nature of the people change then the culture will too.

    The only way you're going to get back that center-right culture is to entertain secession or ethnic cleansing. To get that culture back you need to compose a population with the same characteristics that existed back then. 1980 was only 15 years after the 1965 Immigration Reform. We're now 34 years removed from 1980 and 48 years removed from 1965. In 1980 the American born children of the early diverse immigration boom were not yet voting. In 2012 some of the grandchildren of the early diverse immigrants arriving into a welfare state characterized by affirmative action and non-discrimination policies are beginning to vote.

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  10. 'But here is a point I believe you overlook: We live in the twenty-first century. '

    heh, no.

    "It may be inferred again that the present movement for women’s rights will certainly prevail from the history of its only opponent: Northern conservatism. This is a party which never conserves anything. Its history has been that it demurs to each aggression of the progressive party, and aims to save its credit by a respectable amount of growling, but always acquiesces at last in the innovation. What was the resisted novelty of yesterday is today one of the accepted principles of conservatism; it is now conservative only in affecting to resist the next innovation, which will tomorrow be forced upon its timidity and will be succeeded by some third revolution; to be denounced and then adopted in its turn. American conservatism is merely the shadow that follows Radicalism as it moves forward towards perdition. It remains behind it, but never retards it, and always advances near its leader. . . . "

    -R.L. Dabney

    "Women are taxpayers, voters, and fully integrated into our educational, corporate, and political institutions."

    Indeed, but:

    "Establish the right of suffrage for women and it involves a common responsibility in the duty of bearing arms, for which we are absolutely unfitted. In the discharge of of this severest of all masculine duties we cannot bear a share. If forced to do so, inferior size and strength must make inferior troops. "

    http://mypostingcareer.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5236-women-against-female-suffrage/

    Of course Mrs. Dahlgren wrote the above in a time when Rosie the Riveter's few days worth of work before returning to her piano practice hadn't become the enduring photoshopped image of the american WWII effort and how equal women's contribution was. And now in 2013 women are finally free to do mortal combat, shoulder to shoulder, with the help of heels, with the menz.

    "Female participation in our society is firmly established; and barring some cataclysmic counterrevolution, it is here to stay.'

    why so unimaginative, we will march to a glorious patriarchy, comrade!

    http://grokingfeminism.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/the-modus-operandi-of-equality/


    "such differences are statistically marginal, at best. "

    the difference in strength between men and women is more than 2SDs, between asians and african americans in SAT-maths is the same. Not marginal in any sense of the word.

    http://endofwomen.blogspot.in/2012/09/distributions-sat-scores-cult-of.html

    "Here is my question to you: What are your next steps? "

    destruction of the feminist movement, removal of women's studies departments, purging of academia of the 'integrated' women, LOLing at the war on women meme, say that it's good thing that women can now win war medals just like the men, etc.

    And the vote or the lack of it is not exactly the panacea, as demonstrated by the man who voted women's suffrage into existence:

    "After much debating and argument, the result of the vote was 48-48. Burn's vote broke the tie in favor of ratifying the amendment. He asked to speak to the House the next day and told them he changed his vote because his mother asked him to and that she had always taught him that "a good boy always does what his mother asks him to do.""

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_T._Burn

    mama's boys and doting daddies who wouldn't deny a thing to their princesses, destroying the world one stupidity at a time. Momism has always existed, vote or no vote.

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  11. No no no. You shouldn't use dodo birds as the metaphor.

    Kakapos are what you're looking for. (#5 on the link)

    ReplyDelete